1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000 This is Project 60. 2 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Good evening. This is Clyde McClain. 3 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:33,920 I'm getting you to join us now for Project 60, a project devoted to developing better standards in creative radio. 4 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:42,920 Project 60 is heard for 60 minutes each week at this time and is written and produced in the studios of WBT in Charlotte, North Carolina. 5 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,920 This evening on Project 60, we bring you the Flying Saucers story. 6 00:00:48,920 --> 00:01:01,920 Some time ago, Project 60 regulars may recall the Edgar Casey story, the story of the world-renowned psychic, written and researched for us by Joseph R. Myers of Charlotte. 7 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Mr. Myers examines this evening on Project 60 the story of Flying Saucers from outer space. 8 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,920 It was a clear sunny day, the 24th of June, the year 1947. 9 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:27,920 Veteran private pilot and businessman, Kenneth Arnold, had flown his small craft a few miles off course to see if he could spot the wreckage of a missing army transport aircraft believed to have crashed near Tacoma, Washington. 10 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,920 He was intently observing the mountain slopes when he became aware that he was not alone in the sky. 11 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:45,920 His attention was drawn to and became instantly riveted upon nine shimmering, disc-like objects that were flashing in and out among the neighboring peaks at an estimated thousand miles an hour, 12 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,920 and looking for all the world like they were playing a glorious game of Follow the Leader. 13 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:58,920 Arnold's reputation for shrewdness as a pilot, coupled with his detailed description of the craft and his sincerity of manner, 14 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:04,920 won the confidence of the skeptical news reporters, and his story was given full coverage. 15 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:12,920 It flashed around the world with the newly coined descriptive term Flying Saucers included in the account. 16 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:20,920 Seasoned airline pilots, childs and whitted early in June of 1948 on a flight near Montgomery, Alabama, 17 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:31,920 encountered a large aerial craft three times the length of a B-29 bomber which came alongside of them and circled their aircraft, apparently inspecting them. 18 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:37,920 They said that it was torpedo shaped and glowed all over with a dark blue light. 19 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:43,920 There was a double row of ports or vents along the side which emitted an unusual white light. 20 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:54,920 After remaining a few minutes, the object suddenly loosed what appeared to be a sheet of flame 50 feet long, tilted up one end and instantly accelerated to supersonic speed, 21 00:02:54,920 --> 00:03:03,920 leaving the slow-moving Douglas DC-3 aircraft rocking from the sudden movement of air caused by the instant departure of the gigantic craft. 22 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:14,920 Telling descriptions suggested that the same or a similar craft had been seen about 45 minutes earlier near Robbins Field at Macon, Georgia. 23 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:25,920 With incidents such as these dawned a new era, the era of the unidentified flying objects, the UFO. 24 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:31,920 Are these craft real? Do they have people on them? What are they doing here? 25 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:36,920 Such questions raced through the minds of thousands of people all over the earth. 26 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:44,920 Our government soon organized a team of investigators within the Air Force to analyze and evaluate the UFO reports. 27 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,920 More and more of them had begun to stream in from reliable sources. 28 00:03:49,920 --> 00:04:00,920 At first the government team seemed determined to find all reports of the UFO to be merely natural phenomena or cases of mistaken identity. 29 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Reports turned in by men with excellent reputations and extensive flying experience were debunked by the government team with such unsatisfactory answers as, for example, 30 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,920 implying that a veteran fighter pilot had engaged himself in a heated pursuit of the planet Venus, 31 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:24,920 even exposing himself to possible court-martial by firing live ammunition at the planet in his confusion. 32 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:37,920 Even the unfortunate case of Captain Mantell was treated as an example of confusion on the part of a veteran pilot that resulted in the destruction of his aircraft and the loss of his life. 33 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,920 The Mantell incident occurred in the year 1948 on January 7. 34 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:48,920 All of the late papers in the US that day carried headlines similar to those of the Louisville Courier. 35 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:55,920 The report, F-51 and Captain Mantell destroyed chasing flying saucer. 36 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:05,920 It was at 1.15 on that afternoon when the control tower operators at Godman Air Force Base in their Louisville began receiving calls about unusual aircraft in the area. 37 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,920 They made a quick check with Wright-Patterson Air Base, which indicated that there were no flights about at that time. 38 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,920 More reports came in through the State Highway Patrol. 39 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:23,920 Persons from the surrounding towns gave several descriptions which represented the object as circular about 250 to 300 feet across. 40 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,920 It was moving westward. 41 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,920 At 1.45 the tower operators saw it. 42 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:35,920 Word went around the base and key personnel, including the base commander, Colonel Hicks, came to the tower to observe it. 43 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:45,920 It was still in view at 2.30 and there was a discussion going on as to what should be done when a flight of four F-51 fighter craft near the base. 44 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:52,920 The tower operator gave the flight leader, Captain Mantell, the Colonel's instructions to investigate the UFO. 45 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,920 Mantell saw the object before his companions and pulled away from us to the flight. 46 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:06,920 It was 2.45 when everyone in the tower heard Mantell say, I see something above and ahead of me and I'm still climbing. 47 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,920 In the excitement, no one was sure that they remembered exactly how Mantell described what he saw. 48 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:19,920 However, some agreed that he said, it looks metallic and it's tremendous in size. 49 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:27,920 All did agree that the last words they heard were, it's above me and I'm gaining on it, I'm going to 20,000 feet. 50 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:35,920 Mantell's plane apparently entered into some kind of force field which caused it to break up in pieces from the indication of the wreckage. 51 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:42,920 Parts of the ship were strewn over a wide area and yet there was no sign but an explosion that occurred. 52 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:52,920 The Air Force investigating team probably anticipated the flood of inquiries that would result from the publicity and felt they had to be ready with a quick answer. 53 00:06:52,920 --> 00:07:04,920 They had used the planet Venus to explain a well-publicized incident a few weeks earlier and so almost before the rescue crews were dispatched to the crash, the word Venus went out again. 54 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:15,920 This satisfied the newspaper editors and so it stood, depending further research, that the veteran pilot Captain Mantell had been killed trying to overtake the planet Venus. 55 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:24,920 But as time went on, the government began to issue statements that seemed to reflect a greater respect for the UFO reports. 56 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:38,920 In an address before a group of reserve officers on June 1, 1953, Albert M. Chop, public relations head for the Pentagon with responsibility for the release of all publicity and statements regarding the UFO, 57 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:52,920 said that out of the 3,000 or more cases that had been investigated up until that time, more than 25% had been ruled as authentic and unexplained UFOs. 58 00:07:52,920 --> 00:08:06,920 He said that our intelligence department was certain that no other nation was producing them and that the Air Force emphatically denied that America had anything even remotely resembling them in the sky. 59 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:19,920 The attitudes and convictions of the project members began to change as new evidence poured in, according to Edward Roppelt, who headed up the government project Blue Book as it was then codenamed. 60 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:35,920 The ever increasing amount of data being accumulated, he said, had showed consistency in the phenomena themselves and agreement in many of the details, although much of it was furnished by independent and widely separated observers. 61 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:54,920 Some reports have even included motion picture film taken by trained cameraman. Maybe photographer Delbert C. Newhouse, a warrant officer, furnished one of the notable examples of this kind of apparently tangible evidence of the UFO that are on file in the Pentagon. 62 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:06,920 Newhouse was on leave from the aviation supply depot in Oakland, California. He and his wife were driving along slowly near Tremonton, Utah, when they observed a formation of bright objects in the sky. 63 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:12,920 They were round and brilliant, standing out clearly against the blue of the Utah sky. 64 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:27,920 Newhouse immediately stopped the automobile, seized his 16mm Bell and Howell motion picture camera, attached the telephoto lens, and shot 40 feet of film as the formation of brilliant objects maneuvered within camera range. 65 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:36,920 At the last moment, one of the objects suddenly reversed its course and became separated from the others while Newhouse followed it with his lens. 66 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:43,920 After developing his film, Newhouse sent it with his report to Project Blue Book for evaluation. 67 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:51,920 With customary thoroughness, the film was studied by experts of the Air Force Photorecounterance Laboratory at Dayton, Ohio. 68 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:58,920 According to Albert Chop, the government spokesman at that time, the question of fraud was completely ruled out. 69 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:12,920 Every trick method of duplicating the film had been tried unsuccessfully. Separate frames had been blown up to large scale to reveal any evidence of trickery. The film was pronounced genuine. 70 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:30,920 The analysis of the film by project members was stated to indicate that the objects were traveling a thousand miles an hour and performing what appeared to be intelligently controlled maneuvers that could not be achieved by any known aircraft, piloted or unpiloted. 71 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:50,920 In his book about his experience as the boss of Project Blue Book, Edward Rappelt indicates that some of the members of the government investigating team were becoming anxious to see official recognition given and a statement made that the UFOs were genuine and apparently not of earthly origin. 72 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:56,920 Some of them, he said, felt that the general public should be given such information. 73 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:02,920 Because of this situation, a conflict arose and a high level decision became necessary. 74 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:15,920 The story behind the decision is not altogether plain. It is possible that officials believe that the public was not yet ready to absorb such a momentous concept without becoming panicky. 75 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:32,920 At any rate, government policy reverted again to across the board denial of the existence of genuine UFOs in the skies after the time of that decision. This policy seems still to be the order of the day officially where our own government is concerned. 76 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:44,920 Whether or not the above is true, it is very possible that this move did much to ease a growing tension and fear that might otherwise have overcome the great mass of the people. 77 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:56,920 Fantastic news about space visitors broken to the public without allowing enough time lapse for gradual conditioning of their minds might produce chaotic results. 78 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:06,920 Although the government may have chosen to withhold its findings, there has been little indication of censorship of the work of private investigators into the saucer phenomena. 79 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:18,920 A number of highly dedicated people who seem to feel that it is intensely important for the public to have what they believe to be the true story about the UFOs are continuing to gather data about the spaceships. 80 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:32,920 They have published a number of excellent books giving their findings. Even Roppelt, the former head of the government project Blue Book, is among those who felt compelled to write a book to give the public an accurate account of the UFO data. 81 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:42,920 In turning to the material available from private researchers, we found a wealth of documentation that has made our study into a richly rewarding adventure. 82 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:50,920 Our search brought us into direct contact with a number of individuals who were deeply interested in the saucer phenomena. 83 00:12:50,920 --> 00:13:01,920 A dedicated private researcher in California by the name of Riley Crabbe was recommended to us and we placed the telephone call to him to get his views first hand. 84 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,920 Riley Crabbe was interviewed by Joe Myers. 85 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:44,920 I was asked about flying saucers and I thought that they appear to be quite factual and were taken seriously and then later on I talked to military and civilian pilots there in Honolulu. 86 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:53,920 I was living in Hawaii at the time who had personal findings of flying saucers and this convinced me that the things were real. 87 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,920 Do you have any personal experiences? 88 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:08,920 No, I don't and this puts me in a rather objective position in a way of evaluating the work of other people and not bearing the public to call me a liar because I've seen one. 89 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:23,920 I talked to a work with qualified observers and my work as director of Borderland Sciences Research Associates is to correlate material on sightings and analyze it for a possible value in the sea. 90 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:29,920 I know as far as I'm concerned the things are real. There's no question about that. 91 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,920 On what basis do you say the things are real? 92 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,920 Well, because qualified people have seen them. 93 00:14:37,920 --> 00:15:00,920 A man has flown at $10,000 in the air, a military pilot for years, and then he tells you that one night at one of his flights he saw something which raised the air on the back of his head, a glowing object flying past his plane, and then has a ground radar station called him up and asked him to check on the location of an unidentified flying object in the sky. 94 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,920 That's not an object to sight. 95 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,920 They're verified or backed up by mechanical or electronic equipment. 96 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:14,920 And if you're flying in the plane at the time and this man is the pilot and your life is in his hands, you'd better believe him. 97 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,920 Well, I'm not sure if we surely agree to. 98 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,920 It's not a good call on the victim of hallucination. 99 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:31,920 Will you give us a specific example of a pilot with whom you have made conversation and a description of his sighting as he gave it to you? 100 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,920 I'd be glad to. 101 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:41,920 A Navy pilot flying the Mars flying boats from San Francisco to Honolulu over years. 102 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:53,920 And he told me one night being on the bridge of the plane about halfway across and dead ahead of the plane in the sky was what appeared to be a very bright planet. 103 00:15:53,920 --> 00:16:01,920 And it was growing quite as most of the planets looked in the sky, Peter, Jupiter or whatever. 104 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,920 So he picked up a pair of binoculars to get a closer look at it, a better look at it. 105 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,920 He was surprised to see it was going through all the colors of the rainbow. 106 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,920 It wasn't visible to a normal sight, at least without the glasses. 107 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:21,920 And as he watched it, and this is really an unusual way for a planet to look, the thing suddenly moved sideways. 108 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,920 The planets don't do that. 109 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,920 And then he realized he was looking at another identified flying object. 110 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,920 So he called the rest of the crew up out of the bridge. 111 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,920 A total of seven people, all Navy personnel. 112 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,920 And they all confirmed that they could see this object out there. 113 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,920 And all that time he was called up by Weather Station Uncle. 114 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:50,920 This is the Weather Bureau ship that's on station out there in the Pacific to give weather information and the directions to ship the plane. 115 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:56,920 And they said they had a UFO on their radar screen at maximum distance of about seven or eight miles. 116 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:02,920 And they took him to the location of this UFO and it corresponded to the glowing objects they were looking at. 117 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,920 And then the lieutenant told me at about that time the thing just be smaller and smaller and disappear. 118 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:16,920 Now this lieutenant was so interested in flying saucers that he invited me to give an illustrated lecture on them. 119 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:17,920 Because he's called Cooler Club. 120 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:26,920 And a formal group that met once a week there at the lunchroom, the restaurant at the International Airport of Honolulu. 121 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:34,920 This is a group of commercial pilots and the airport personnel and military and civilian flying people. 122 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,920 To try to give them some idea of what this subject is, could this be? 123 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,920 During that lecture did any of the other pilots confirm that they had also seen such... 124 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:45,920 Yes they did. 125 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,920 In fact, of course I sat at the speakers table, I remember three other people there at the table with me. 126 00:17:50,920 --> 00:18:01,920 A civilian officer of Hawaiian Airlines and a Navy captain and this lieutenant who was a pilot of the Mars flying boat. 127 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:07,920 And they and they enrolled their flying saucer sightings and I specifically wanted to say that I hadn't actually seen one. 128 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,920 I didn't claim to have seen one yet I was the lecturer. 129 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,920 Are you familiar with pictures that you consider authentic? 130 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,920 Oh yes. 131 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:20,920 Yes we have, I might say literally hundreds of flying saucer pictures in our files. 132 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,920 Very interesting matter to compare them of course. 133 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,920 Some may be fake, others appear to be genuine. 134 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,920 Would you give us an example of the circumstances of a photograph that you could consider authentic? 135 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,920 Well one that I would consider authentic because it's on file with the government in Washington somewhere. 136 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,920 Because it was taken by a member of the God Observation Corps. 137 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:53,920 The gentleman was on duty as a God Observation Corps member and one night in July 1952 in Jersey City looking toward New York City. 138 00:18:53,920 --> 00:19:00,920 And he saw a glowing object in the sky in the direction of New York City and he got an excellent picture of it. 139 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:10,920 And that night, and this picture is on file, was turned in as part of his official report of having seen an unidentified flying object in the sky. 140 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:21,920 So this is one example of government duplicity we might say when an official agency's issue report saying that they have no physical evidence of flying saucers exist. 141 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,920 We do know that they have some pictures. 142 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:31,920 I'm sure that they mean rather that there's no evidence that they consider incontestable, not that they have no evidence. 143 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:32,920 Yes. 144 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,920 Are they going to believe their own observers? 145 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,920 What are they to believe? 146 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:46,920 What about the question of communication between the flying saucer personnel and the earth? 147 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:56,920 Well, we have examples, some would appear to be authentic in our files and I have talked to people who have had communications. 148 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:05,920 Now, this of course gets into the area of the fourth dimension and the extra sensory perception or telepathy in many cases. 149 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:18,920 And then you move out of the field of what's so called orthodox scientific inquiry into the area of human solidarity or the receptivity of the human mind and this is where orthodox science doesn't want to go. 150 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:28,920 Do you have personal contacts with individuals who believe they have contacted flying saucer individuals? 151 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:35,920 Yes, I've had, well I should say perhaps three or four contacts with such individuals over the years. 152 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,920 Individuals who appear to be reliable as far as character went. 153 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:47,920 Would you describe the circumstances or any of the background that would... 154 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:55,920 Well, of course one of the best, undoubtedly, is Adam Dan Frye who was a technician with Air of Jet to the back in 1950. 155 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:06,920 Out there in White Sand, steaming ground and, sadly, he had a misoperative ride in a spaceship on the night of July 4, 1950 in acceptance. 156 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,920 Now at that time he thought he was in a physical body as far as he was concerned, it was a physical experience. 157 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:19,920 And yet he has been talking to a cult scientist whose student of medicine exists then. 158 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:25,920 He has had to admit the possibility that his body might actually have been asleep for the sake of his trans. 159 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,920 In his quarters there at White Sand and this experience was really not physical at all. 160 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:36,920 And this is, of course, what makes the whole thing so difficult to understand. We don't deny it. 161 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:44,920 This also is a good reason why the authorities are so reluctant to come out with any authoritative explanation of flying saucers. 162 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:52,920 I see. What about the question of crashed flying saucers? There seems to be rumors that there have been crashed saucers. 163 00:21:52,920 --> 00:22:01,920 Yes, we have several eyewitness accounts of a crashed spaceship, the saucers in New Mexico and Arizona in 1949. 164 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:12,920 And then we have one which was crashed on the island of Sturzbergen in the North Arctic region in July of 1952. 165 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,920 That was seen coming down by Norwegian jet planes and followed down. 166 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:29,920 Then there was an inquiry by the Norwegian government and after three years in 1955 they finally released a report of the analysis of this crashed spaceship. 167 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:36,920 And the conclusion was that it was made by processes unknown to any government here on Earth. 168 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:43,920 And apparently it was not manufactured here on Earth. The materials were not known to present technologies. 169 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:49,920 In other words, they found the actual remains and brought them into the government premises. 170 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,920 Yes, the report was released to the public through the newspapers in 1955. 171 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:07,920 I have a translation of the news clipping here. Colonel Gerno Garnvile of the Norwegian Air Force Board of Inquiry made the statement after three years of looking at the things. 172 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,920 I don't know why more people don't know this than the newspaper. 173 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,920 I forget these things because they don't want to remember them. 174 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,920 Perhaps that's true. 175 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:23,920 You've given us a lot of background material here and I believe you say you've been studying them since 1947? 176 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,920 1949 was when my interest was started in this subject. 177 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,920 I see. 178 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,920 This is a long time to put in on the study of flying saucers. 179 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:35,920 Yes. 180 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,920 Of course we're in the area now. You see the philosophical problems involved. 181 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:47,920 Having accepted the reality of the thing we've gone on to the area of why they are here and who they might be. 182 00:23:47,920 --> 00:24:03,920 And what would be the impact on our society of a general realization and acceptance of the idea that outer space is an evidence and that there may be races that superior to us in evolution as we're in the universe? 183 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:04,920 I see. 184 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,920 Another real problem you should see. 185 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:12,920 From your own standpoint then, your own quest has satisfied you that they are real. They do exist. 186 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,920 Yes. 187 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,920 I see. 188 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,920 We're not enough. 189 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,920 Joe Myers talking with Riley Crabb in California. 190 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:33,920 Some of these private researchers have not only spent years in their study of the phenomena, but had also traveled thousands upon thousands of miles to verify the information that they had. 191 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,920 Bryant and Helen Reeve were among these latter people. 192 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:51,920 Bryant Reeve, an MIT graduate and chief engineer of the Nash Calvinator Manufacturing Plant in Detroit, before his retirement around 1954, identified himself as being thoroughly skeptical toward flying saucers when he first heard of them. 193 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,920 He felt that anyone trained in the field of engineering would be inclined to be incredulous. 194 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:07,920 Not only did Bryant and Helen Reeve become believers in the reality of the spaceships, but they eventually wrote a very intriguing book on the subject entitled Flying Saucer Pilgrimage. 195 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:15,920 We visited with the Reeves at their summer home at Virginia Beach, Virginia, to hear their views in person regarding some aspects of their search. 196 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:24,920 We shall let Bryant Reeve speak for himself through the tape recording of our conversation, which took place in October of 1963. 197 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:30,920 Now, Reeve, how does a practical-minded man like yourself become interested in flying saucers? 198 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:44,920 Well, I was extremely skeptical. This goes back quite a long way, almost 10 years when we lived in Detroit, Michigan, and I was engaged in manufacturing work. 199 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:53,920 But some frames of ours brought in a book on flying saucers, and this first time I'd ever heard of them. 200 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,920 I thought it was just science fiction, but my wife Helen seemed quite interested. 201 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:14,920 And this finally resulted in an amazing event in which we brought the author of the book all the way from California to Detroit to question him in regard to his experience. 202 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:22,920 This book was called Flying Saucers of Winded by George Adamski and Desmond Wastley of England. 203 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,920 How did it occur to you that you and your wife might write a book on the subject later? 204 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:34,920 No, we helped as far as it's from our mind, but shall we put it this way? 205 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:44,920 When people retire, some of them make a hobby of golf and some of them fishing and some of them collecting curios of various kind. 206 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:55,920 Then we sort of made a hobby of trying to find out whether it was true that we were in an age when spaceships from our space were actually visiting the Earth. 207 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:03,920 We actually spent over two years of travel, and we traveled 23,000 miles on this quest. 208 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:16,920 And after we had visited many people who had sightings or claimed they had had sightings and someone had contacts with these visitors from outer space, 209 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:23,920 we moved over into Old Mexico and spent six months there investigating the subject. 210 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,920 And this proved very fruitful. 211 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:34,920 Was there a particular incident that won you and Mrs. Reeve over to this belief that you now express in regard to the UFO? 212 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:46,920 Well, I think I started out as the, shall I say, about the rank of skeptic in the whole field, but there was no particular event. 213 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,920 First we started investigating sightings. 214 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:57,920 We talked to hundreds of people who had these experiences, and we found that they weren't uncommon. 215 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:08,920 Also, we began to, through correspondence, we began to get in touch with a picture on a worldwide basis, and this was quite amazing. 216 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:15,920 The same kind of adventures were happening all over the world, not only in the United States. 217 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:29,920 I don't think it was any particular outstanding event, but just a fantastic accumulation of evidence, which finally led both of us to the acceptance that this is true, 218 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,920 that spaceships aren't visiting the Earth and that this is in this era. 219 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,920 Did your research convince you that generally fraud could be discounted? 220 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:53,920 I don't think fraud or even the wildest of imagination could account for the consistency of these phenomena on a worldwide basis, 221 00:28:53,920 --> 00:29:00,920 because people who had never heard of each other in different countries were having similar experiences. 222 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:11,920 I think our approach was somewhat along the line that is used and understood in our democratic society in regard to law. 223 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:23,920 People are called a jury service, and then before the jury is presented, there are certain facts, and then they pass judgment on these facts. 224 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:33,920 Well, I think that we approach the whole subject pretty much in this manner, trying to keep objective, trying to keep sensible, 225 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:45,920 but if we were on a jury and all of this evidence that we uncovered was presented to us, I think that we as a jury would say yes, it must be so. 226 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:52,920 Apparently then, Mr. Eve, you no longer have any reservations about the reality of the UFO. 227 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:04,920 No, we have none, and also please understand that our views are not merely those of two individuals. 228 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:13,920 We have followed the research of many other private individuals in many parts of the world, 229 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:24,920 and our views coincide pretty much with a sort of the average view of many of these researchers. 230 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,920 Tell us then, Mr. Eve, why do you think they are here? 231 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:42,920 Why are they here? Of course, this is one of the greatest questions, shall we say, the $60 million question in regard to this phenomena. 232 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:59,920 I think that the consensus of opinion among the serious and intelligent private researchers is that this tremendous advent of spaceships and the atmosphere of Earth 233 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:07,920 is indicative of a great new age into which the Earth seems to be moving. 234 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:24,920 These are not hostile craft. The air forces of many of the great powers after years of investigation have come to this conclusion that we are not facing an invasion from outer space. 235 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:41,920 We are facing a friendly interest in our planet, and the opinion of the researchers drawing on all types and kinds of evidence which they could uncover 236 00:31:42,920 --> 00:32:02,920 tends to show that we are entering a great changed era on the Earth, and that these people with a greater cosmic perspective are somewhat in the capacity of our elder brothers who are taking an interest in us. 237 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:16,920 They've been through this type of experience many, many thousands of years ago, and they have come to try to help us adjust ourselves to the changes of this age. 238 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:23,920 Do you and your wife, Helen, feel that we might regard these space people as guardians to the planet Earth? 239 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:39,920 Yes, some of the researchers have used that very term because it seems that there is government in outer space, just as there is government in many, many phases of the Earth, 240 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:55,920 and that there is a government of planets and solar systems and even galaxies. And if we wish to call these beings, these intelligences, guardians, it seems that that's a very appropriate term. 241 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:16,920 Incidentally, these guardians seem to regard planets somewhat like schoolrooms and where the school children on the planet Earth. And so in a way they're the school masters and they're interested in seeing the school children don't burn down the school house, so to speak. 242 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,920 Would this be the reason why there have been frequent sightings in the vicinity of atomic planets? 243 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:40,920 Yes, I think this is part of it. And one researcher or several have plotted sightings and saws for phenomena relative to the geographical fault lines of the Earth. 244 00:33:40,920 --> 00:34:03,920 And this produced some very astounding data. And look it over, it was seen that these ships have made almost a scientific survey of the fault lines of the Earth. We are experiencing a few earthquakes these days and maybe they're studying this condition on the Earth somewhat. 245 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:10,920 What are your thoughts on the ideas of our communicating with these unidentified flying objects? 246 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:23,920 This subject of communication is one of the definite chapters in a serious comprehensive research into this subject. It's a very fascinating one. 247 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:38,920 Apparently there has been communication between people on the Earth and these beings. This may seem absolutely preposterous to those who have not studied the matter and it did to us to start with. 248 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:58,920 But the proof partly of this is that some of the great saucer phenomena or experiences of people on the Earth have been set up by some type of, shall we say, ESP communication in advance. 249 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:10,920 In other words, some type of an ESP message was received. You'll be at a certain place at a certain time and there you will have a saucer experience. And this has worked out on many occasions. 250 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:23,920 So it seems that there is communication. We feel that it's been carried on through many, many means in a few cases through electronic means. 251 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:42,920 But the language of outer space, it seems more and more, must be the language of thought. And so this sort of gets into a study of the ESP phases of communication, a very deep and a very interesting subject. 252 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:48,920 You say there has been communication. What is the general pattern of this communication? 253 00:35:49,920 --> 00:36:09,920 Well, we've studied this type of communication for nine years. It comes in from many, many sources. It's quite voluminous. It takes a lot of patience to study it and coordinate it. 254 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:19,920 By the way, I might interest you that we've given a name to this type of communication. We call it OSC for outer space communication. 255 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:31,920 This means communication between Earth men and the space beings by any means. Not only extrasensory perception means, but any other means. 256 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:51,920 And we've made a very profound study along with other researchers. And in general, I think it's impressive that the messages convey a great sense of goodwill between these higher beings and ourselves. 257 00:36:51,920 --> 00:37:07,920 I think this is the main impression. It's a little distressing to people who've made this kind of study to have somebody get up, sometimes occurs, and try to say that these people are enemies from outer space. 258 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:17,920 The whole tone of all this type of communication is one of goodwill and helpfulness toward the Earth. 259 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:39,920 Sometimes these researchers, like ourselves, feel that if the people of the Earth had been more receptive to this phenomena and this approach from outer space, we might have had much more personal contacts than has happened on the Earth. 260 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:59,920 But remember, the general receptivity of this civilization has been very poor except for private individuals. The great governments of the world have gone into a blanket of secrecy in regard to this. 261 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:11,920 And so it's almost been up to individuals to try to find out these facts and in case someone is interested, they're willing to share them. 262 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:24,920 Mr. Bryant Reeve, a private researcher into the subject of unidentified flying objects, an MIT graduate, a chief engineer of the Nash-Calvinator Manufacturing Plant in Detroit, before he retired in 1954. 263 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:34,920 It is interesting to find that men of high reputation in the scientific world have voiced their belief in the celestial visitor explanation of the flying saucers. 264 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:42,920 As an example of this, we have selected a quotation from one of the greatest of our space age scientific minds, Herman Oberth. 265 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:55,920 Often called the Grand Old Man of rocketry, Professor Oberth is the towering imaginative genius who pioneered in the formulation of the original design concepts for rocket propulsion some 35 years ago. 266 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:02,920 After World War II, he joined with his former pupil, Von Braun, to assist in America's space program. 267 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:13,920 Professor Oberth unequivocally expressed his views upon the UFO in an article published in the American Weekly, dated October 24, 1954. 268 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:20,920 From his article entitled Flying Saucers Come from a Distant World, we quote the following. 269 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:42,920 In recent years, I have examined all of the arguments supporting the existence of flying saucers and denying it. 270 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:52,920 And it is my conclusion that the unidentified flying objects do exist, are very real, and are visitors from outer space. 271 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:59,920 Military leaders have expressed opinions similar to those of scientist Oberth. 272 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:10,920 The wartime boss of the British Royal Air Force Fighter Command, Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowling, said that he believed that there are flying saucers from other planets in our atmosphere, 273 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:21,920 although he stated that he had not seen any personally. Having access to information equal to, or even superior to that which our own military executives have, 274 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:33,920 apparently Lord Dowling believed that these views of his should be made public. 275 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:45,920 The New York Post, dated October 4, 1955, published an account of a lecture he had just given in which he stated that the evidence for their existence is overwhelming. 276 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:54,920 He also said that he did not expect them to land and give us any of their scientific knowledge until we had learned some better manners. 277 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:05,920 There are numerous stories that indicate that actual tangible evidence, such as wreckage from crashed saucers, is in the possession of various governments around the world. 278 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:17,920 Access to this knowledge by certain reputable people in government may provide the basis for the rather strong affirmations upon the reality of saucers that these highly placed officials have made. 279 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:27,920 In an international news service report from London in May of 1955, Miss Dorothy Kilgallon sent in a story that was given wide publicity. 280 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:35,920 The following is quoted from her story as it appeared in the Miami Herald on May 23, 1955. 281 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:51,920 I can report on a story which is positively spooky. British scientists and airmen, after examining the wreckage of a mysterious flying ship, are convinced that these strange aerial objects are not optical illusions or Soviet inventions, but originate on another planet. 282 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:57,920 The source of my information is a British official of cabinet rank who prefers to remain unidentified. 283 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:06,920 We believe on the basis of our inquiries thus far that the saucers are staffed by small men, probably under four feet tall, my informant told me. 284 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,920 It's frightening, but there is no denying that the flying saucers come from another planet. 285 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:18,920 This official quoted scientist is saying that a flying ship of this type could not possibly have been constructed on Earth. 286 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:27,920 The British government I learned is withholding an official report on the flying saucer examination at this time, possibly because it does not wish to frighten the public. 287 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:38,920 Many investigators seem to believe that for almost 200 years now, we have been subjected to an increasingly intensified program of observation by the space people. 288 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,920 If the number of sightings by competent individuals is any indication. 289 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:49,920 Many records of these sightings from earlier times are from ship's logs and were observations by sea captains. 290 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:57,920 Others come from astronomers who seem to have been sighting objects passing across the face of the moon as long as we have had telescopes. 291 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:05,920 Here are some examples of sightings in the past 90 years that sound remarkably similar to our present day accounts. 292 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:13,920 On September 26, 1870, the London Times reported a strange elliptical object that was seen to cross the face of the moon. 293 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:25,920 A year later, on August 1, 1871, citizens of Marseille, France, sighted a large round object moving slowly across the sky, apparently at a very high altitude. 294 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:35,920 At Katin on Germany, on March 22, 1880, several bright luminous objects were sighted just before dawn, moving westward as they climbed. 295 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,920 This account was published in the British Nature magazine. 296 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:47,920 In 1885, the Bermuda Royal Gazette described a mysterious round object that had flown over the islands. 297 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:57,920 And later, that same year, on November 1, an astronomer and others reported sighting a huge round object over Adrien-Apol, Turkey. 298 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:05,920 In 1888, an oval-shaped disk was reported seeing over New Zealand, speeding along at a high altitude. 299 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,920 In 1890, aerial objects were sighted over the Dutch East Indies. 300 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:22,920 And about the same time, objects were seen in the sky over England and Scotland, one of which was described by a British admiral as a large disk with a projection that looked like a tail. 301 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:38,920 A notable sighting occurred in America in 1878, and the story appeared in the Denison, Texas Daily News, dated January 25, which mentioned an observer's comparison of the object with a huge, quote, flying saucer, unquote. 302 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:50,920 These sightings from the past, perhaps the most astounding and thoroughly documented, is an account of an unidentified flying object over America, which occurred in 1897. 303 00:44:50,920 --> 00:45:07,920 A huge, cigar-shaped aerial ship that displayed red, green and white lights made a leisurely tour through the skies over many of the Middle Western and far Western states, being seen by thousands of people and reported at length by many major newspapers. 304 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:15,920 An official publication of the United States Weather Bureau, the magazine Weather Review, gave an account in a 1907 issue. 305 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:29,920 It described an incident in which a torpedo-shaped aerial machine was seen as it circled over Burlington, Vermont, and was observed to drop a glowing object which exploded before it struck the ground. 306 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:44,920 The noted author and tireless investigator of the UFO, Donald E. Keyhole, is particularly in sympathy with the belief that the celestial ships have been visiting the Earth down through the ages, and that they come from other planets. 307 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:54,920 His books offer documentary evidence that there have been occasional scatterings of the space visitors in our skies since time immemorial. 308 00:45:54,920 --> 00:46:04,920 Although the official position of our government has lent little encouragement to these views, there is yet a clear indication of its respect for those who have propounded them. 309 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:19,920 Before publishing the script of Major Donald E. Keyhole's book titled Flying Saucers from Outer Space, which firmly implies the space visitor origin of the celestial objects, his publisher asked the Air Force for an official release. 310 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:26,920 The publisher was given the release and also an endorsement of Major Keyhole's work, which reads, in part, as follows, quote, 311 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:38,920 His long association and cooperation with the Air Force in our study of unidentified flying objects qualifies him as a leading authority on this investigation. 312 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:47,920 The Air Force and its investigative agency, Project Blue Book, are aware of Major Keyhole's conclusion that the flying saucers are from another planet. 313 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,920 The Air Force has never denied that this possibility exists. 314 00:46:52,920 --> 00:47:10,920 Some of the personnel believe that there may be some strange natural phenomena completely unknown to us, but if the apparently controlled maneuvers reported by many competent observers are correct, then the only remaining explanation is the interplanetary answer, unquote. 315 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:18,920 Most of the incidents that have been cited are taken from records that were accumulated prior to the year 1955. 316 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:25,920 This is simply because there was much more publicity given to the sightings in the earlier years. 317 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:34,920 A natural question which will occur to the inquisitive mind is what is happening today in the flying saucer investigation? 318 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:43,920 Perhaps an answer to this may be found in an article which appeared in the Yale Scientific Magazine dated April 1963. 319 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:54,920 The top Air Force UFO consultant, also a noted astrophysicist, Dr. J. Allen Heineck, wrote the article from which we quote as follows, 320 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:59,920 Flying saucers held by no means died out, as was once constantly expected. 321 00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,920 There are more UFO reports per year rather than less. 322 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:10,920 Further, for every puzzling report that reaches Air Force attention, there are many more that do not. 323 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:18,920 In his article, the Air Force Chief UFO scientist commented that oftentimes many witnesses may submit almost identical reports. 324 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:28,920 He said that the level of intelligence of the observers was usually average or above, and that in some cases it was embarrassingly above average. 325 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:36,920 He also noted that the phenomena are not in the least bit limited to the United States, but are definitely worldwide. 326 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:42,920 More sightings per square mile, he stated, occurred in England than in the United States. 327 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:52,920 But he also said that there were many reported sightings from France, Brazil, Spain, Italy, Australia, Canada, and even several Iron Curtain countries. 328 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:59,920 A religious leader in England seemed to have anticipated the times that we are now entering. 329 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:12,920 The late Bishop Barnes of Birmingham, England, at the Congress of the British Association for the Advancement of Science at Westminster, London, on September 29th in the year 1931, expressed these views. 330 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:22,920 There are many other inhabited worlds, and on some of them, beings exist who are immeasurably beyond our mental level. 331 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:30,920 We should be rash to deny that they can use radiation, so penetrating, as to convey messages to Earth. 332 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:40,920 Probably, such messages come now, when they are first made intelligible, a new era in the history of humanity dawns. 333 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:53,920 At the beginning of the new era, the opposition between those who welcome the new knowledge and those who deem it dangerously subversive may lead to a world war. 334 00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:04,920 But I should like to be living then, when we begin this new era. We might get a true understanding of the beginning of the universe. 335 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:21,920 Appropriate closing words for our story may lie in a quotation from a Bavarian Catholic theologian, the Reverend Philip Dessar, who spoke upon the subject of celestial visitations in Munich on July 29th, 1954. 336 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:30,920 The evidence seems to demonstrate with adequate certainty that intelligent beings from another planet have been observing the Earth for the last eight years. 337 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:43,920 If it is possible to make contact with these beings, it will be the most dramatic event in history. It is the duty of governments to prepare man for the possibility of such an encounter. 338 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:51,920 And there you have the Flying Saucer Story, research then written for Project 60 by Joseph R. Myers of Charlotte. 339 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:59,920 Are there really unidentified flying objects? Are they really from outer space? What is their purpose? 340 00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:06,920 At this time, any true answer could only be conjecture, what you must admit, interesting conjecture. 341 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:13,920 You have been listening to Project 60, a project devoted to developing better standards in creative radio. 342 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,920 Project 60 is produced in the studios of WBT Radio in Charlotte, North Carolina. 343 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:27,920 This is Clyde McClain. Inviting you to join us next week at the same time, when once again this station presents Project 60. Until then, good evening. 344 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:46,920 Project 60 is produced in the studios of WBT Radio in Charlotte, North Carolina.